Posts by Coded Logic

16

My Wife Now Questions God

by Jon Preston in

well my wife and i have been through a roller coaster of life since i convinced her the dibs werent the truth.

the hardest tests have been lived but we are closer than ever now.

now recently shes read "the shack" nd watched some movies about god and just cant seem to inderstand why god would allow all of this suffering just to prove to satan that hes "the man" (or woman).

Coded Logic

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

I would start by pointing out to her that morality exists independant of any God. Realizing there is no good reason to believe in a deity should no more affect her sense of morality than learning that unicorns aren't real. Morality deals with the results that our actions have on other sentient beings - namely humans. Causing harm is bad. Causing well being is good. Barring a serrious brian disorder like psychopathy, everyone understands and can relate to how other people feel and how our actions might influence them (look up Theory of Mind for more infromation on this).

The Golden Rule, treat people how you want to be treated, is most commenly associated with Jesus. Though he certainly wasn't the first person to say it. Isocrates had said it three-hundred years earlier. And Confucius a further two-hundred years before that. It's been part of every major civilization in history up to the present day. And its a concept we all intuitively understand.

But, more importantly, I would pose the following question to her: Which is more moral - doing something so that you can get a reward? - or doing something because you care about others?

Once a person considers the ramifications of this question it's very easy to see that religion gives people bad reasons to do good things - and often bad reasons to do bad things.

On the other hand, basic empathy gives people good reasons to do good things: Do good things for your family - because you love your family. Do good things for your friends - because you love your friends. Help those in need - because they are in need. Be good for goodness sake and help others for the positive effects it has on yourself and the people around you.

There is no need to choose between living well and doing well to others. For they are the same thing.

3

"The Only Way Those People Would Be In the New System Is if ISIS killed them!" Fifth JW To tell me that! Sam Harris Blog too

by BucketShopBill in

been out of commission due to some issues that i hope will get resolved and get my name out of the watchtower's registry.

oh how i am starting to believe this religion is demonic, i watched some videos and the watchtower's orgin has nothing to do with christianity but it trace's its source to demon worship and that's why they act so hateful against all members who speak out against their lie!

the twooth is what they believe!.

Coded Logic

Islam, at best, is a religion that doesn't play well with others. I don't see why it's such a big deal to acknowledge this simple fact.

39

What is a morally upright life?

by jgnat in

is it relative, or do all human societies and cultures hold at least some things to be good?.

i don't think right and true is "universal" other than what is right and true for people.

a dolphin or a praying mantis may have alien perceptions of what is "good".

Coded Logic

Thanks Jgnat for the link it was a great read. I hadn't realized there was so much hype going on around mirror neurons. Peer reviewed scientific articles are a good way to sort out opion from facts.

There's a great one on the link between mirror neurons and Theory of Mind by Zarinah K. Agnew called The human mirror system: A motor resonance theory

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CH8QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F6292577_The_human_mirror_system_a_motor_resonance_theory_of_mind-reading%2Flinks%2F02e7e528e562fe4d56000000&ei=kgYZVPuZBYPloASN_IE4&usg=AFQjCNEI48ktr77PH6LYsyJlb_zoNW86eA&sig2=Fyq5qSm3RLDwovee8ZblCw&bvm=bv.75558745,d.cGU&cad=rja

39

What is a morally upright life?

by jgnat in

is it relative, or do all human societies and cultures hold at least some things to be good?.

i don't think right and true is "universal" other than what is right and true for people.

a dolphin or a praying mantis may have alien perceptions of what is "good".

Coded Logic

Morals aren't that complicated once you define the metric that is used to seperate moral actions from immoral actions.

As Simmon already brought up, we are a social species. Societies that work together - survive. Societies that don't work together - don't survive. Things like Altruism, Cognitive Empathy, and Theory of Mind are not unique to humans. We also see these in other social speices like dolphins, elephants, chimpanzees, and dogs.

So what is the metric universal metric? Well, things that promote human and animal well being - are good. Things that cause human suffering and harm - are bad. This is the basic metric used to determine the morality of actions (without having to appeal to outside sources like law, holy books, parents, etc.). Of course, all of this begs the question, what is human well being? Well, we can start with some very basic prinicples like; life is generally preferable to death. Pleasure is generally preferable to pain. Fairness is generally preferable to bias. Etc.

One could always argue that there is some outside source that informs ethics but the differnce is the things I just listed are universal and innate (assuming you have the neccissary mirror neurons and a developed pre-frontal cortex).

26

ALIENS!! (and the downfall of religion)

by disposable hero of hypocrisy in

let me clarify, when i say aliens, i don't mean shiny helmeted spaceship dwelling anal probers.

(although i could be proved wrong).

if any alien lifeform was found on mars or another planet or even a comet, be it tiny bacteria or even some form of non carbon based life form, would that not destroy religions grip on mankind?

Coded Logic

Microbial life forms probably wouldn't shake anybody's faith.

-jws

Its funny you should say this because when I was a JW this was the one thing that I had ever thought about and that I knew would destroy my belief in the Bible. Intelligent life wasn't a big deal for me because "God could have just created them." However, if microbial life was ever found on mars I remember thinking that would show that evolution was true - and thus Adam and Eve were false. No Adam and Eve means no original sin. No original sin means no need for Jesus sacrafice.

Looking back I now know there are much better ways to disprove the claims in the Bible - but back then it was the one thing I knew would really shake my beliefs. I think for most JWs, finding microbial life in our solar system would make them serriously question their fath. The implications are too hard to ignore. And I'm sure the WTBTS would spend considerable resources trying to dispute such findings with their usual nonsense, "The microbes could have hitched a ride on the rover from earth, the microbes aren't really microbes they're an equiptment glitch, scientest can't be trusted, etc."

32

What is the wackiest or strangest teaching that Witnesses adhere to?

by stuckinarut2 in

i guess there are many, but what would be the strangest teaching, or "wackiest" ?.

.

Coded Logic

The wackiest teaching they have is "God hates violence"

I have to laugh everytime I hear that. Besides God killing people non-stop - and telling people to kill other people all the time - he is referecned as a "man of war" (Exodous 15:3).

Accepts a child sacrafice form Jeptha for helping him defeat the sons of Ammon (Judges 11:30-35)

God has 3,000 of his own chosen people murdered for the Golden Calf incident (Exodous 32:27)

Slaughters one million Ethiopians (2 Chronicles 14:12,13)

Orders the Israelites to commit genocide against the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites with orders to kill everysingle man, woman, child and even their live stock (Deuteronomy 20:16-18) . . . trees are okay though.

Yeah, it sure sounds like God hates violence!

17

Radiocarbon dating totaly inaccurate before 2000 BCE

by opusdei1972 in

it seems that this portion was published in the watchtower in the year 1977 (as i have in the spanish version):.

the radiocarbon dating method has been widely accepted by many scientists as showing that humans lived back to at least 50,000 b.c.e.

that conflicts with what the bible says.. but physicist r. brown of andrews university claims that this radiocarbon dating method is highly inaccurate.

Coded Logic

Radiocarbon dating is a tool used for dating plants, plant eating animals, and preditors that eat plant eating animals. Everytime I read that "radiocarbon dating has been proven wrong" its always something completely rediculous - like some creationist saying a diamond was dated as being only 60 thousand years old. Obviously you can't carbon date a diamond as they don't absorb C14 from the atmosphere. It would be like saying hammers have been "proven wrong" because you can't boil water with them. Obviously hammers are a tool used for driving nails not for boiling water. Likewise, radiocarbon dating is for dating plants and animals not for dating rocks.

But to come to the point of your OP, the simple fact is dendrochronology (using tree rings to date trees) has verfied the accuracy of radiocarbon dating up to 40,000 years. And scientest often use multiple dating methods to veryify the age of things. When they need to date something older (or something inorganic - like a fossil or rock), they have other tools they can use. There are several other dating methods including:

Obsidian Hydration

Paleomagnetic / Archaeomagnetic

Amino Acid Racemization

Fission Track

Oxdisable Carbon Ratio

Electron Spin Resonance

Cosmic Ray Exposure

Varves

Cation Ratios

Stratigraphy

And the other kinds of Radiometric dating:

Potassium to Argon

Rhenium to Osmium

Lutetium to Hafnium

Samarium to Neodymium

Rubidium to Strontium

12

FOR SALE: Gloom, Doom, and Persecution.

by Coded Logic in

religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature - it is the spirit of a spiritless situation.. .

it's really sad that jws only ever see the bad things in the world and are either unable or unwilling to acknowledge that now is the safest and most prosperous time in all of human history to have ever lived.

within the last hundred years we have gone from the wright brothers first flight, to setting foot on the moon, to curiosity exploring another world.

Coded Logic

I'm not moving the goal post at all. Rather, it is the JWs that move the goal post. When the predictions of Matthew 24 aren't fullfilled they try to point to other things in the world that are bad as though that is part of prophecy.

No ones claiming the world is perfect. But, by every metric of human well being, it is getting better. People are better fed, have access to cleaner water, to better medicine, are better educated, have access to more resources, are less likely to die a violent death, are better able to support their families, have more free time to pursue their goals, ect. than in any time in human history. The average individual today lives a better life today than a king did a thousand years ago. But if you're just going to point out the bad things and completely ignore the good things you're not going to be able to see that.

34

What makes a "good Jehovah's Witness"??

by stuckinarut2 in

so, i have been thinking...what is the formula or recipe for the "perfect jw"?.

here are a few points i thought of...please feel free to add!.

always dress in the jw manner...no variation in clothing / hair styles / facial hair.

Coded Logic

Go to your assigned hall even if you have to raise hell with your boss to get the right night off.

Stop preaching to that bilenguil woman and hand over your one and only study to the Spanish speaking KH.

Underline 90% of the words in your Watchtower and circle the cited scriptures in a different color marker.

Turn up the thermostat by one more degree to make sure it's too warm in the KH.

Invite people you never hang out with to go out in field service with you "sometime".

If at all possible, avoid going out in service with people you don't usually hang out with and never ever make definitive plans with them.

Get all the good gossip while out in FS with one of the elders wives.

Tell all the gossip you heard, with some exagerations, to everyone you know.

If you're out in FS and you stop at Star Bucks for less than 15 minutes . . . wait at least another fifteen minutes before leaving.

Drive to your return visits in the longest possible route. NEVER - EVER go to return visits that are near by. Always go to the ones that are furthest away first.

If you go to a door and it seems like someone might actually be home - don't ring the door bell and knock as quitely as you can.

If someone is mowing their lawn - they are clearly too busy to hear your life saving news.

If someone is doing something in their garage - they are clearly too busy to hear your life saving news.

If someone is just getting home or just leaving - pretend like you don't see them.

If someone asks you a question about the Bible you should say "that's a really good question" and say you will do some research and get back to them.

Don't EVER get back to them.

Invite over members of the congregation for dinner (but only families whith dads that are elders).

Its okay to swear in front of an elder since they'll probably just laugh it off.

Don't ever swear in front of a MS - they'll rat you out to the elders who will then feel obligated like they have to do something.

12

FOR SALE: Gloom, Doom, and Persecution.

by Coded Logic in

religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature - it is the spirit of a spiritless situation.. .

it's really sad that jws only ever see the bad things in the world and are either unable or unwilling to acknowledge that now is the safest and most prosperous time in all of human history to have ever lived.

within the last hundred years we have gone from the wright brothers first flight, to setting foot on the moon, to curiosity exploring another world.

Coded Logic

World still capable of self-destruction many times over through nuclear weapons.

We went from 70,000 nuclear weapons at the height of the cold war in the late 1980s to around 16,000 today. Granted, still way too many but the number keeps being reduced. And, in occordance with the New START treaty, another 6,000 are schedualed to be dismantled by 2018. Pretty soon we'll be under the 10,000 bar

Man's ruining the climate.

How amazing it would have been in Matthew 24 had said something along the lines of "and man's fires upon the earth shall pollute the air and cause great storms and angry seas."

Oh well, the Bible never seems to miss an opportunity - to miss an opportunity.

War lessening but still millions of refugees; Islamic militancy and terrorism on the rise.

Hmm, it doesn't seem like anyone is saying "Peace and security" right now. In fact, it sure seems like everyones saying the opposite.

Economic disasters and suffering (eg, Greece) and signs of impending economic collapse.

Com'on Matthew! How did you not see this comming?

Polio, etc, replaced by AIDS, etc.

What?! Desieses? You mean those things that have been around since the begining of time are going to still exist in our day? Only a true profit of God could possilby have fortold such a thing!